More rugger this weekend - yayyyy

Predictions:
Wales - Scotland - HOME WIN
France - Ireland - HOME WIN
Italy - England - AWAY WIN

Why does the Welsh badge have no dragon, three feathers and a motto in German? It's crazy!!

kwak kwak wrote:

Thank you for reminding me in such a pleasant way.

Think I'll just go and buy a fan.

Cp where are you when I need you

Zarathustra wrote:Predictions:
Wales - Scotland - HOME WIN
France - Ireland - HOME WIN
Italy - England - AWAY WIN

Why does the Welsh badge have no dragon, three feathers and a motto in German? It's crazy!!

Nowe come on Z everybody knows why
The badge has no connection with the native Princes of Wales. It is thought to have originated with Edward, the Black Prince, the eldest son of Edward III of England. According to legend, the Black Prince obtained the arms from the blind John I of Bohemia, against whom he fought in the Battle of Crécy in 1346. After the battle, the prince went to the body of the dead king (whom he admired for his bravery) and took his helmet, lined with ostrich feathers. The feathers and the dead king's motto made up the prince's new badge and came to be used by subsequent Princes of Wales. A key factor in the English army's defeat of the French was the use of Welsh archers, it may have been Edward's pride in the men of Wales which led him to use a symbol of their victory as his emblem. The motto in German is "Ich Dien" which is a near-homophone for the Welsh language phrase "Eich Dyn" meaning "Your Man", which would have helped enamour the young Black Prince to the Welsh soldiers in particular.

kwak kwak wrote:

Nowe come on Z everybody knows why
The badge has no connection with the native Princes of Wales. It is thought to have originated with Edward, the Black Prince, the eldest son of Edward III of England. According to legend, the Black Prince obtained the arms from the blind John I of Bohemia, against whom he fought in the Battle of Crécy in 1346. After the battle, the prince went to the body of the dead king (whom he admired for his bravery) and took his helmet, lined with ostrich feathers. The feathers and the dead king's motto made up the prince's new badge and came to be used by subsequent Princes of Wales. A key factor in the English army's defeat of the French was the use of Welsh archers, it may have been Edward's pride in the men of Wales which led him to use a symbol of their victory as his emblem. The motto in German is "Ich Dien" which is a near-homophone for the Welsh language phrase "Eich Dyn" meaning "Your Man", which would have helped enamour the young Black Prince to the Welsh soldiers in particular.

Thank you Kwak for your most erudite explanation. Thank you Google for supplying Kwak with the information. Even though I am a linguist who speaks both languages the homophonic similarity between "Ich dien" (German: I serve) and "Eich dyn" (Welsh: Your man) had escaped me.
Yes, Kwak (and Google), the Welsh were famous bowmen at the time. (If some were killed, would they count as "fallen archers?" or should that be on a theread about Mags's shoes? )

At the time Bohemia was ruled by the House of Luxembourg, a German family, which explains the German motto. Anyway, I doubt if Edward, the Black Prince (can one still say that?) knew any Welsh, or German for that matter. The languages of the court were English and French.

Edward held the title Prince of Wales due to his great-grandfather bestowing it on his heir Edward of Caernarfon, who later died a horrible death through the insertion of a red-hot poker up his rectum. (Seems an odd vase for flowers!!) It was a title conferred by the invaders, and not all subsequent Princes used it. I refer, of course, to Owain Glyndŵr.

However, the English have no rigtht, except that of conquest, to the title, and i see no reason why it should be respected by a Welsh national team.

BTW, HRH is also Duke of Cornwall, another title conferred by English aggression!!

Also on old maps the extent of geographic knowledge stopped in the marches and therefore Wales was described thus

"Here be Dragons".

Could this be why the dragon is a symbol of Wales.

And the greatest and last of the true Welsh Princes of Wales was LLewllyn Ap Gruffydd who Married Ellen a daughter of Simon De Montfort - the Father of the English Parliament who was killed at the battle of Evesham in 1265 when he was outflanked by Edward Longshanks, who had taken his son Bran by surprise - who died in childbirth. After Llewellyn's death his daughter was taken by Edward and lived out her life in a nunnery.

mags wrote:Also on old maps the extent of geographic knowledge stopped in the marches and therefore Wales was described thus

"Here be Dragons".

Could this be why the dragon is a symbol of Wales.

And the greatest and last of the true Welsh Princes of Wales was LLewllyn Ap Gruffydd who Married Ellen a daughter of Simon De Montfort - the Father of the English Parliament who was killed at the battle of Evesham in 1265 when he was outflanked by Edward Longshanks, who had taken his son Bran by surprise - who died in childbirth. After Llewellyn's death his daughter was taken by Edward and lived out her life in a nunnery.

After Llewelyn's death (1282) his brother David succeeded to the title, but, not surprisingly, this was not recognised by the English court. David was captured and executed by the English.

"Three Welshmen, however, claimed the title of Prince of Wales during the medieval era.

The first was Madog ap Llywelyn, a member of the house of Gwynedd, who led a nationwide revolt in 1294-5, defeating English forces in battle near Denbigh and seizing Caernarfon castle. His revolt was suppressed, however, after the Battle of Maes Moydog in March 1295, and the prince imprisoned in London.

In the 1370s, Owain Lawgoch, an English-born descendant of one of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd's brothers, claimed the title of Prince of Wales, but was assassinated in France in 1378 before he could return to Wales to claim his inheritance.

It is Owain Glyndŵr, however, whom many Welsh people regard as being the last native Prince. On September 16, 1400, he was proclaimed Prince of Wales by his supporters, and held parliaments at Harlech Castle and elsewhere during his revolt, which encompassed all of Wales. It was not until 1409 that his revolt in quest of Welsh independence was suppressed by Henry IV."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princes_of_Wales

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Dragon

The dragon is a symbol of Welsh womanhood. Well, of women everywhere really.

Tee Hee thought the topic would drag on

Actually the other nations have national symbols
Scotland has a thistle,
England has a rose
Ireland has a stylised shamrock
Italy has a shield in the national colours

Why do the French have a cock??

Look Snowdonia Pass for a gob keep it shut
- meanwhile here's a clip from Zara Bettis-a-noshed's memoirs :-

Desperate, king Lludd of Great Britain consults to his wise brother Llefelys in France. Llefelys advises him to dig a hole in the center of Great Britain, to fill it with an alcoholic substance and to cover it with a cloth.
Lludd listens to him and does as he said; both dragons drink and fall asleep, then he encage them in the region of Dinas Emrys, in Snowdonia, to the north of Wales.

kwak kwak wrote:Look Snowdonia Pass for a gob keep it shut
- meanwhile here's a clip from Zara Bettis-a-noshed's memoirs :-

Desperate, king Lludd of Great Britain consults to his wise brother Llefelys in France. Llefelys advises him to dig a hole in the center of Great Britain, to fill it with an alcoholic substance and to cover it with a cloth.
Lludd listens to him and does as he said; both dragons drink and fall asleep, then he encage them in the region of Dinas Emrys, in Snowdonia, to the north of Wales.

What were the dragons called, Kwak? I bet they were both female.

not certain but they sure weren't Lluddites

and if shoegirl yawns again I'm going round to sort her out

I'm more interested in the alcoholic beverage. Was it really gin and bitter lemon?

Vermouth

Is that your new tipple?

kwak kwak wrote:and if shoegirl yawns again I'm going round to sort her out

When you're big enough you'll be too bloody old and you won't be able to catch me

mags wrote:

kwak kwak wrote:and if shoegirl yawns again I'm going round to sort her out

When you're big enough you'll be too bloody old and you won't be able to catch me

You don't hear about lockjaw round here much any more do you - ought to be brought back for ancient shoe-fetish vermouth-brain-addled womenfolk

Two out of three predictions correct. I'jj be anazed if the last one's wrong!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtCOprRDUm8
Same tune is used in Cornwall and Brittany,

CYMRU AM BYTH!

left it a bit late though didn't they.
The frogs were a bit good today too

I win tomorrow either way.

L'Italia ha giocato bene oggi. Sfortunato per perdere. L'Inghilterra era difettosa.

I thought so too, if the sin bin had been applied as it should have been I think it would have been a draw.
What on earth was wrong with Johnny Wiko. He was kicking like a girl

estelle wrote:I thought so too, if the sin bin had been applied as it should have been I think it would have been a draw.
What on earth was wrong with Johnny Wiko. He was kicking like a girl

I'd be in trouble for saying that. Maybe he was wearing a pair of Mags's shoes. LOL!
I'm in serious trouble now.